Occupy Wallstreet

[Cyvaris]

Well since I don't see anything going on in the debate thread about this I think this is a good place to post.

So what is everyone's position on this? I for one fully support this movement. For to long have the 1% dominated our world. Some may think of me as anti-capitalist, but you know what when the system allows for such injustices to happen maybe its time that the rules changed.

 

[Clarke]

Well, I'll support it as soon as someone can demonstrate a system that doesn't fall into Unstable Equilibrium.

 

[Aquaplant]

The current system is indeed pretty terrible.

Well, I'll support it as soon as someone can demonstrate a system that doesn't fall into Unstable Equilibrium.

A system where there would be no need to hoard resources.

 

[Human No More]

I think anyone who claims to be communist should first live in North Korea for a year - odds are they'd abandon that idea.

 

[Moco Loco]

Communism doesn't automatically mean North Korea conditions
Anyway, I'd say I support the movement.

 

[Cyvaris]

Re-quoting my friend here, mainly because he summed up my feelings well.

"If one thinks of "Free Markets" as completely free then that is the same as having no government or anarchy. As we have evolved and we spend more time in groups we realize we must have rules to ensure that one person's freedom does not diminish another person's freedom. To ensure justice. Our economic systems have become extremely complex and require more rules to ensure justice. If more rules to ensure justice are anti-capitalist, then that is exactly what we need."

 

[auroraglacialis]

North Korea is not Communism!

And re the original topic: Thumbs up for Occupy Wallstreet. Innovative protests! If they will be effective - we'll see. But I like them

 

[Isard]

North Korea is not Communism!

Yes, it is. Just like Soviet Russia, and Communist China (they've actually managed to get all the negatives of capitalism AND communism all blended into one)


The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results. Communists are the very definition of insane.

 

[Tsyal Makto]

OWS has my support 100%.

 

[Pa'li Makto]

I think anyone who claims to be communist should first live in North Korea for a year - odds are they'd abandon that idea.

Where did you get the idea that the Occupy movement is communist? :hmm:

I'm all for the Occupy movements, not just in Wall St but the ones sprouting throughout the globe. People are realising that they don't have to keep bailing all these banks out and they can voice their indignation publically to both their own government and the world that this doesn't have to be the way things are. Plus the whole concentration of the battle of the working and ruling class is used by both communists and socialists.

 

[Advent]

Yes, it is. Just like Soviet Russia, and Communist China (they've actually managed to get all the negatives of capitalism AND communism all blended into one)

In other words, fascist communism. True egalitarian communism has yet to be used in practice.

 

[Isard]

In other words, fascist communism. True egalitarian communism has yet to be used in practice.

Because it inevitably falls into fascist communism.

 

[Cyvaris]

Because it inevitably falls into fascist communism.

Not if you structure it right. Michael Moore has some VERY interesting ideas about how the government and the corporate sector should be run. His ideas sound very communist/socialist(IE all resources owned in common), but the spin he would have on them might actually make them work. If anyone is getting involved in this I suggest they pick up "Here Comes Trouble" Moore's latest book.

 

[Isard]

Not if you structure it right. Michael Moore has some VERY interesting ideas about how the government and the corporate sector should be run. His ideas sound very communist/socialist(IE all resources owned in common), but the spin he would have on them might actually make them work. If anyone is getting involved in this I suggest they pick up "Here Comes Trouble" Moore's latest book.

That's what the last three groups said.

 

[Advent]

True communism hasn't even been used yet. These groups started with their own variation of the original idea, which became corrupt and turned fascist.

 

[Human No More]

Michael Moore has no understanding of politics.

Yes, occupy wall street does appear communist. It's an attack against the rights of people to do business. I doubt anyone honestly thinks this is actually going to change anything - what, governments will go "what? - some trust fund kids who have had everything handed to them and claim to be a socialist despite only getting where they are thanks to their parents are playing politics? oh noes!"?


If you say 'it's just anarchist', then I'll ask this - anarchism may well seem fine if you have a large secure compound with independent food and energy supplies and enough people to keep it secure, but if you're just living in a normal place, anarchism means anyone can break in, shoot you and take everything you want, and there are no police to stop them and no courts to punish them even if they get stopped. Would you truly want to live somewhere with no government, no police, no emergency services, no justice system, no hospitals? Hint: It exists - it's called Somalia.

 

[Pa'li Makto]

Yes, occupy wall street does appear communist. It's an attack against the rights of people to do business.

The banks and those in the sharemarket shouldn't have to be bailed out by the same people who they have rendered destitute or lesser then what they were.
That isn't a communist demand, it's a demand for fairness. Especially when people in the financial system in the US have a big say in what goes on in politics.

From The Occupy site: About Us | OccupyWallSt.org

The participation of every person, and every organization, that has an interest in returning the US back into the hands of it's individual citizens is required.

Our nation, our species and our world are in crisis. The US has an important role to play in the solution, but we can no longer afford to let corporate greed and corrupt politics set the policies if our nation.

We, the people of the United States of America, considering the crisis at hand, now reassert our sovereign control of our land.

I hardly call this communist..Since when should people in the business sector get away with helping to create one of the biggest financial crisis' of the last few decades?

 

[Human No More]

Interesting, but it doesn't change how it appears. It still looks very much like the same kind of uneducated person who wears a Che Guevara tshirt without knowing who he was or the atrocities he committed.

That said, complaining about the bailout still belies a misunderstanding of both politics and economics. Without it, governments the world over would have collapsed.

 

[Pa'li Makto]

Interesting, but it doesn't change how it appears. It still looks very much like the same kind of uneducated person who wears a Che Guevara tshirt without knowing who he was or the atrocities he committed.

That's a common misconception though. Sure there are the ones who pop in for the fun of it but the majority of the socialists/communists I've talked to have a very educated opinion based on wide research into the government, people and events concerning their protest. Taking things on a glance can be a very bad thing to do.

 

[Cyvaris]

Interesting, but it doesn't change how it appears. It still looks very much like the same kind of uneducated person who wears a Che Guevara tshirt without knowing who he was or the atrocities he committed.

That said, complaining about the bailout still belies a misunderstanding of both politics and economics. Without it, governments the world over would have collapsed.

Yes because throwing even more money to the banks and corporations shows such a wonderful understanding of how politics and economics work. You know what, the BAILOUT was COMMUNIST!!! The government stepped in and helped, AHAH PANIC THE GOVERNMENT IS TAKING OVER!!!

Seriously if we live in such a "free market" the government should have just stood by and let the banks and other companies fail. For to long have the 1% been able to live with out consequences. Sure the world may have been plunged into a massive depression if governments had not stepped in. Or maybe the imminent collapse would have the Corporations that still have billions of dollars to $*#@ing wake up and see they might just need to do something and stop being such greedy bastards.